Could it have anything to do with the plants ability to grow as well?
Outdoors, majority of the time, I’m guessing they’re in the ground, or in very large containers. And the plants will likely be growing to very large sizes, could the limit of root space and potential heigh limitations be a cause for stress on the plant?
I don’t think that any one thing in particular will just cause it to herm, but a combination of things that are different indoor to outdoor, might just be enough to stress it into herming.
Yeah pot size can totally be a cause for it too. If the tap root has to turn. For instance, some lines will flower as soon as that happens regardless but they’re not autos.
Damn man, that sucks and doesn’t seem like something that should be happening at all as you are well aware of how to grow plants.
This is funny as hell! If you try and grow this plant, it will herm, haha.
But that is just really bad to try and lean on those reasons as being the cause of herm plants for the most part. Let alone if these plants are “bred for outdoors”, they should be able to handle a variety of conditions: under water, over water, and high nitrogen being a few of them…
Crazy reef people, first they give me the overdriven fluorescent tube, now this. I thought about setting something up with arduino or something to do that, but then I remembered I barely/don’t have the basics of indoor growing down, and moved on with my life haha. Happy to know I didn’t waste time reinventing the wheel.
If that were the case, then why would only some plants herm? And why would I have gone like six years growing plants before a few did?
Sure, that’s not outside the realm of possibilities, but it seems unlikely to me. That would mean that allllll of those seeds taken from landrace strains and bags of imported weed and whatever all else would’ve had to have had the “herm trait” bred out of them indoors. And while I know that certain old-school breeders actually did have to do that with certain genetics (like the Thai that elgallo mentioned a few days ago), I know it didn’t have to be done with all of them. If certain genetics that were grown outdoors for 1000’s of years can be grown indoors without herming, I’m not sure why a Sky Cuddler f3 would freak out over being grown indoors, especially since that was the one of the ones that didn’t get the meangene “outdoors only” designation.
Again, I guess it’s possible.
Meangene grows huge numbers, hundreds of plants; I don’t think he’s putting each one in its own 100-gallon container. And I doubt he’s planting them directly in the ground, as well. I haven’t taken a close look at his IG, but maybe I will later today to see what he grows them in.
Those Yesca x Jaros are definitely not root bound, though haha. None of my plants ever do much root development once they’ve been transplanted from the half-gallon veg pots into the seven-gallons, not too sure why, but it’s always bothered me haha. Every time I recycle my soil, the root ball is basically the same size as the half-gallon pot from which it was transplanted.
I actually still haven’t dumped the soil from the pot that that Chocolate Blitz I killed a few days ago was in, gotta do that today. I’ll try to remember to take a pic to show y’all.
Because it’s really important to me that I prove it to everybody haha!
Yeahhhhh, it’s annoying. I kind of maybe wanna just chop off some of the lowers, but there really aren’t any “lowers” on those Yesca crosses. Everything grew straight up and in and stretched like crazy, too. On Friday I was looking at what I might be able to hack off. I’d put a finger down at the base, where one of the lower branches was attached to the meristem, and fooooolllooooowww it up to where it ended and they’re all basically “tops” haha.
Weird and interesting growth patterns for sure. Next time I grow them, I’m definitely gonna try to do some seriously hardcore training to spread them out a little bit.
Yeah, even if Meangene has been breeding plants outdoors for the last 20 years, I don’t see that being enough time to make a plant herm when grown indoors. Also, most people that are growing cannabis are doing so indoors so that is typically what most genetics are geared towards. It’s not like you’re taking seeds you got from a farmer in Laos or Thailand and trying to grow them indoors.
Yeah, that was my thinking, as well, especially when you consider that probably only half of some of those crosses (either the mom or the dad) may have even been grown outdoors that long. Or even just some portion of the mom or dad. Twenty years doesn’t seem long at all when it comes to something as ancient as cannabis, especially if you consider that (probably indoor) strains like Skywalker OG and Sour Diesel etc have been being introduced into meangene’s initial breeding genepool for years.
Or whatever haha. I dunno.
I get the impression that the actual breeding/pollination is done indoors and the seed testing is done outdoors. That’d be the way that I’d do it, anyway. But, like I said, I haven’t researched his gear enough to know. I actually logged on to IG to look at his page after I watered just now, got distracted by a couple posts from vernal and forgot why I was even there haha! I’ll try to remember to check it out later.
Plus-side, didn’t see any sacs or nanners this morning, sat in the tent and didn’t find any light leaks, either, so that’s good. I also did a stem rub/nug squeeze on the two Yesca x Jaros just for you, @HolyAngel haha, I know you like those. They both smell very promising, very “Sour/OG.” Not like Sour OG: The Strain, but they smell (or my fingers smelled, anyway) super-sour on the front end, followed by that perfume-y “OG” nose. They smell good!
It sounds like he does work in at least a light-dep greenhouse and not really indoors. There was another unrelated line he mentioned that he said wasn’t tested indoors at all. I like the way he describes everything though. The other thing is, it looks like Jaro is
Sour Diesel x (Hollywood Pure Kush x (black Afghani x Hindu Kush))
idk what sour cut that is but I know the Hollywood PK is very herm prone. Some of these guys also just don’t mention it with the sour and some of these other cuts as it’s just to be expected that they will throw nanners. Some of the plants you can pick them off and they won’t throw more, but I haven’t come across that myself. The few plants I ran that did it would keep doing it so i just stopped trying and toss anything that does it. You might have better luck than me there.
Oh yeah!
That’s pretty interesting! So the sour and og type scent in the stem rub smells kinda like the flower you’d get from those plants? The NL2 male I have has a very kushy type stem rub, almost like how the TK’s flowers smell. Also very good! Lol but honestly before that, most all of the stem rubs I’ve come across don’t smell like the flowers of any other strain, they smell like other stuff
Yeah, I remember you having troubles with yours. I didn’t have any issues with those Pura Vida plants, but those were f2’s, maybe that had something to do with it, I dunno. I feel like I’ve grown another cross (not the Sky Cuddler) that had HPK in it, as well, and didn’t have any issues with whatever it was, but I can’t remember right now what that might’ve been haha. Maybe I didn’t grow another HPK cross.
I’m not sure if that’s what the flowers from the Yesca cross will eventually smell like, but the stem rub and nug squeeze did smell very sour and very “OG.” I hope the flowers turn out the same way, though, for sure. We’re still a long ways off. That tall one especially looks like she’s got another 45 days, at least.
Of course, if they did get pollinated, maybe we won’t have to wait quite as long
Yeah, that’s why I don’t usually bother with stem rubs, although I do usually do some nug squeezes here and there. Kinda hard not to haha. I remember the Headbangers had a very “lime-ish/sour” sorta smell when I did a stem rub on them, but they didn’t end up tasting like that at all, so I’m not holding my breath on those Yesca plants haha…
Well, I’m not trying to say that that is the only thing contributing to herming, just that it could be something that contributes to herming, that the greater weed growing community never discusses, or at least I have never seen talked about. Specifically because we, as a group, tend to sweat tiny pinholes, but are also comfortable saying “if you can’t read a newspaper, you’re fine”. I’ve never really been able to make those two thoughts jive in my mind.
So I imagine stress resulting in herms to be a cumulative thing. Drying out, being too wet, over or under feeding, too small of a container, and light leaks/wrong light schedule, these are all things are accepted as being causes of herming indoor. My point is that maybe some strains are more prone to herm from the instant switch from dark to light, as opposed to the gradual swing you would see in nature. Like maybe that stressor is more heavily weighted in some strains. Fuck, could have been selected for over the thousands of years the plant has been used by humans. Maybe in Nepal or somewhere else where one strain of plants are used for seed, fiber, and hash it is a benefit to have that quality. Plant it on the south slope with it’s gradual change for charas, north slope were lack of light makes is stretchy for nice long fiber, east slope where an early morning barrage of sunlight makes it herm for seeds. This is all basically stoned rambling for what it’s worth, not saying these are in any way facts.
But yeah, I’ve always imagined it as a stress bucket that has to fill before the plant goes into survival mode and tries to seed itself.
And yeah, maybe MeanGene is just sloppy with his selection too. Focusing solely on traits like taste or smell or something.
yeah generally stem rub is not to tell what the flowers are going to smell like. Stem rub is to follow phenotypes around the line. In this case, we have no idea what the parents smelled like so kind of moot. But if you only popped a half pack or something and found one girl you really liked that had a particular stem rub, you could likely pop the rest of the pack, or make seeds with her, and use that stem rub scent to find another girl that will more than likely have a bunch of the same traits as that first one you picked out. At the least I like to make a note of it for if and when I ever revisit the line
I can think of at least 5 of Bodhi’s strains that have thrown nanners on me but I almost always have a lot of serious stresses going on simultaneously. Rootbound, high heat, underwater/overwater are almost always conditions present for me. I have had nanners in genetics that weren’t in high stress conditions from people like Dj Short as well as Serious Seeds who had supposedly worked their lines extensively. I don’t like it but to me it’s just a given that if you’re hunting phenos you may encounter intersex traits and that’s one of the arguments for cuttings. I accept the risk because variety is more fun than growing the same cutting on repeat.
Not really making excuses for the ‘breeders’ or anything, just throwing my anecdote out there about B’s strains. I also tend to choose crosses with genetics that are notorious for intersex issues such as OGs. I remember a few grows ago both a Redeye Jedi (Sky OG x 88g) and 2 Madre Azul (Blue Lotus x OMG) had intersex issues, and 2 of my SSDDs from last run had intersex issues (male threw pistils, #4 nanners).
I don’t know what either of those things means haha. Sweat tiny pinholes? If you can’t read a newspaper, you’re fine? I don’t get it haha. But I did only wake up like an hour ago, so… I’ll ponder that for the rest of the day.
Right, like when newbs go overboard and they start to see an issue, then they go overboard the other way to try to correct it. I understood what you were saying.
I understood what you meant re the “gradual light” thing, as well. That’s actually something I’ve thought about for years; not in relation to herms or anything, but just as a way to mimic “natural” lighting. I’ve considered hanging maybe like a two-bulb fluorescent on the east side of the tent, set to turn on fifteen minutes before the actual grow lights turn on and another two-bulb fluorescent on the west side of the tent, set to turn off fifteen minutes after the grow lights turn off. So, like, during flower, there’d really only be eleven hours of “official” grow light usage (11.5/12.5 when I flip), until I start to do a weekly decrease in five-minute increments around week four. Then, obviously, the plants would be getting even less “official” grow light time.
But that seemed like a hassle… haha! Seriously, though, that is something I’ve thought about doing for a long time. I could (and probably would) use something as easy as just a little 12-watt whatever bulb on each side of the tent, too, instead of the fluorescents.
Right, right, I’ve seen you mention that, like with the TK stem rub smelling “woody” or whatever. On the rare occasions when I do it, I’m just curious haha. I’m not breeding or anything, nor am I keeping cuts around, so…
I mean, I guess, but I like I said, I never had that issue until two years ago, when something hermed during the Mexican Melon/Chem Fuego/Black Triangle grow. For the previous five or six years, everything was fine. Even the few non-Bodhi things I grew were fine. And now that I think about it, one of those non-Bodhi things was a Durban Thai Highflyer cross and she was fine. Another was a Rare Dankness Tangerine Kush and supposedly Rare Dankness stuff is super-herm-prone, but she was fine, too.
I dunno. It’s all a journey… haha!
I really don’t think that OG’s are prone to intersex issues. Or rather, you have to take into consideration just how many people grow them and how many of those intersex instances were maybe possibly the result of user error. I grew Goji (twice), Larry Lotus (twice), four Uplift plants (Hell’s Angel OG), Imperial Majesty (Pure OG) and probably some others that I’m forgetting about. None of those hermed.
But maybe OG’s are prone to that kinda stuff haha, I really have no idea, just relaying my own experiences. @zephyr’s grown a few OG’s, I think, maybe he can chime in when he gets a second.
I am on mobile so I can’t check but I believe I heard in the nspecta potcast that he made a statement along the lines of 15% of the offspring of OG crosses have intersex issues. I think he even pointed out that the mother plants in the crosses don’t have those issues either. Obviously cookies, sour, gg4 would be other genetics that would require sorting.
Yeah anything OG or Chem related is likely gonna herm. Most of them were found in bag seeds from herms, like GG4, so it’s just the nature of the lines. I expect anything with those genetics in there to herm for me, and they usually do.
Wouldn’t he have a vested interest in saying something like that, though, since he’s a seed seller who makes a lot of OG crosses? And a lot of S1’s, to boot?
Sorry, I’m just being contrarian now haha. I’ve gotta stake the tall Yesca cross in a second, she’s getting ready to fall over, kinda putting it off.
That makes sense, I get that. But you know what the only plant I’m not worried about right now is? The Hashplant D haha. She’s the only one that just looks totally “normal” and easy. All of the others are doing really annoying things haha, but she’s all good.
