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ah lol gonna be a good day!
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I think i shouldn’t but I can’t resist, and this fucking positive ambient for one time on the diesel subject … i fucking love OG as hell.
You know well why i’ve to react ^^ I’ve inbred it to two digits and crossed it with almost everything enough potent to be interesting enough to smoke. Also a bunch of fems because it was also a practical horse.
The segregation on JH is quite binary, from the release to highly pressurized states : it revolve around the limonene rate, and i’m not joking at all even if it look crazy. C99 come from it, and it’s particular “citrus fruit” variation.
The limonene phenos was mostly favored by Dutch, it’s the one they sold the most in coffeeshops during decades after the first cup. The most famous for old farts is the cut of the Dampkring, the one that definitely make me fond of this strain.
It’s very simple in segregation, over the rich pedigree this lady have :
tribe one : pale green, lemony, in need of specific feeding program, progressive but fast high
tribe two, the one i favor finally : dark hues, scents of backwood, eat normally, hit like a train at the middle of the cone with the same vicious progression than the tribe 1. At the difference that it never stop past the pivot point, the lemony girl is capped (high but capped).
It’s simple : if it’s fruity, even a hint it’s from the tribe 1 pale green segregation. Every variation turning woody, spicy, earthy is from the second segregation. Both are destructive/suppressive and can’t survive aside each other, if you don’t isolate them they eat each other no matter what you do, even with an intermediate outcross.
If you make successive open pollination, the lemony group just disappear for good within three generations.
Even inbred as fuck, it’s impossible to miss the typical structure in veg. It’s not like her cousins the NL5H, the SH, the SSH, the shape never vanish. The four are quite easy to distinct when they are flowering, they all share the same tempo and flowers formations with their proper variations.
You know how much i’m respecting your insight on the SD and how it changed my vision of it on the practical side, but the JH lead is not relevant. I swear.
In this galaxy of close cousins, the only one shape i see possible is the one of the NL5H. and i don’t even believe it myself. I think that Shoes is more close with his theory and factual tests on the NL#5 (pure), to speak about this manner to dig the subject. That i don’t share personally, but that i can’t avoid in all integrity.
Why the NL5H : because the SD i’m referring (you know which one) is a majestic, fat plant. Only the NL5H is able to be this fat and impressive. All others cousins are too much full of cytos to be able to produce the flower structure of the SD, they are too dominating on it : thin and dense elongated flowers, plushy baseball bat.
Why not the JH : because the veg will be hardly printed. As many cuts, there is no breeding involved in the SD and it’s a chance in fact. The segregations operating are direct and pure genetical clashs. Potency too, but i will get stoned in public place if i develop ^^
And in 2008 we got it in a spanish nursery. As well than the Chaco, the AJ, the “untagged NYC” (my fav) and the cut that Arjan got with his puppy.
But not only ^^ We got also an ECSD that was obviously a SSH, and that had its time on ICM under various name and tags. We got the same cut one year later, strictly the same, tagged Amnesia Haze lmao Also the SSH2 used by GHS to win cups under various strains, renamed as fuck a ton of times too.
Just to put some water on this chaotic mess that is the “diesel gate”. I personally don’t give a fuck about the stories behind, i’m glad i wasn’t responsible to source anything because the pain in the ass it is, and the cut i’m in love, is the less charged with fancy useless dramas. It’s not even considered as “genuine”, it’s just a cut from the streets they got in the late (2003-2004).
For me it’s simple, the SD is just the most strong odor i’ve ever smelled in my indoor spaces. None other is able to fill a 30 sqm room with a single clone. And none “ECSD” we got do it.
This thing is just impossible to miss. You lit a blunt, the whole street know it. When you grow it, you have to create carbon filter loopbacks in the four corners to don’t be raided even with a top notch lab. And everything you eat or drink 3 hours later just taste the SD.
Why not the JH : because the SD eat whatever you give at almost any EC level, it’s not a nutrient’s diva. And for what is worth, only the AJ eat like it and the “untagged”. Both can be overfert as fuck, badly grown as fuck and fill the room with this strange odor of gas station full of phenolic musk, at the point to let you think that to lit a lighter is a bad idea.
On the structure, i have a problematic with the NLish theory because there is no side branching at all … the inherent sign of a NL dominance with its reverse umbrella. None of this in the SDs and even the ECSDs. But it’s totally possible that it’s latent and print only by recessive touch. And it’s disturbing to have a NL5 mother aside a SD mother, because the structure of clones are quite similar during three weeks. Only the structure and the dynamism, the canopies are at light year from each other.
So yes bro, NO JH on the SD. You’re the fucking bug in the matrix i was waiting for a long time on the subject, but don’t waste your time on this lead. There is no breeding involved behind the SD cut, it’s direct, you can eliminate purely the JH with peace of mind.
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I can’t believe I made it to the end of this long thread! 
An OG member is sending me some seeds you guys are going to like. When I pop them I’ll let you know the what and the who and probably post a few pictures.
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This is kinda related I just purchase these they just dropped this weekend 2/4/24
they had some Tractor Fuel I was able to get before they were Discontinued I don’t know how long they will last look at how many were made
I got mine from the breeder I don’t post much on here but maybe I will make someone’s day I know they are hard to find
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Those packs sold out quick. Seen when they launched and it was about a day later I was looking to maybe snag a pack… but they were clean out.
Any plans for reproduction on those gems?
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Do you actually have those packs in hand? Because I tried to order directly from Aficionado once and it was a total shitshow, they could not get it together at all. You’d think that they’d kinda wanna try and fill a $1200 order, but I guess not. Maybe they had bigger fish to fry…
In any event, I’m glad they never got my money.
What do you mean by that?
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https://www.aficionadoseeds.com/product-page/original-diesel-bx2
@darkillusion has done extensive work with AMG stuff and many people here have AMG stuff now because of him.
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In The Sticks cut of Albany Sour Diesel, day 38. She’s a totally different plant this round, getting all the attention she needs.
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It might not be this spring but I will hit you up when I do
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I’m sorry it didn’t make your day and you don’t have any !
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some more “Diesel” clones and more just hit site! They won’t last
https://northcoastnovelties.com/product/original-diesel-weasel-underdog-one-rooted-clone/
Hapi
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Thanks for the generosity of @beebud, I’m putting these four Karma SOWAH regs (KG SD x KG SD BX3) on to soak. He hooked me up with some other awesome Sour Diesel genetics that I can’t wait to start growing!
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This was my Bio Diesel keeper from 303 seeds. She was a super nice Sour D.
Bio-Diesel »»» Bio Diesel x {Original Diesel x NYC Diesel}
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@hammerheadgenetics Sup HH! I remember that BioDiesel. I think you sent me cuts of it back in the day with that Sour Dubble but I lost it before I got to try it. I’ve been jealous of that specific plant ever since. Good to see you are still doing well brother!
~Doc
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So if anyone is interested in picking up where I left off researching Sour Diesel. I wanted to share my notes. I suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and then during recovery my backup hard drive suffered a catastrophic failure and I lost two decades of growing notes and one of the most extensive picture libraries of elite clone onlies in the world. I only managed to save like 15 pix, about 4 videos, and two or three text documents.
One of those documents is my notes on my research on Sour Diesel. I believe it also contains cut-n-paste conversations with Klopp, wildmountaincannabis, growmoremids, and other OGs from the Sour Diesel crew. Im cutting and pasting from my original document. bear with me.
~Doc
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Sometimes history can only be told by those who were there and if there is a conflict then it can only be resolved by them. This is where we are at now with Sour Diesel, we are waiting for AJ, Weasel and Vondo, the three people who were there, to resolve their issues and set the story straight. They are the history of Sour Diesel however Weasel’s and Vondo’s stories tell the history very differently. AJ’s story has never changed and appears to be the truth.
Weasel’s Backstory for Sour Diesel
Weasel, aka Kloppglass on IG,
kloppglass
the chem 91 was crossed into a Northern lights this is my first cross from that I took 100 seeds labeled them one through 100 the first one the one the underdog I referred to the seeds as chemlights
kloppglass
Later I took one of the male chemlights and crossed into superskunk the sourDiesel was born out of a half pounds of weed with seeds to Vondo kept Some of the seeds for myself grew them out Vondo handed me a cut back I grew this along side of the seeds that I did Sometime do you do ground 97 AJ got his cutting Vondo says he got his seed from me in a different bag of weed
kloppglass
Last year I took the original underdog And crossed in to the swizzle from green acorns aka I’am the weasel.
growmoremids
@kloppglass I’m beginning to think that you are talking about a completely different plant than the Sour that I know. Now, I can’t really say what exactly transpired after I left NY in the fall of 96, but I certainly know what went down before. It seems that the upstate side of the story has been largely omitted from the general narrative — so here I am to try and shed some light. First. This was a series of happy accidents coupled with an equal number of unfortunate events. Sour was not intentionally bred. Secondly, Sour is not the daughter of Chem, she is the grand-daughter. Let me explain…
growmoremids
This all started in the early 90’s… Chem made her way to NYC. There was a group of us who were all brought together because of a shared love of the Grateful Dead, glass and good weed. Around this time the Chem started making her rounds… no one liked the name “Chem” and we collectively began referring to her as the Diesel. Diesel started of as a descriptive for anything we would pay $500+ an ounce for, to which the Chem/Diesel became the defacto standard. I was fortunate to have access and was lucky to collect a bean here and there when they would mysteriously end up at the bottom of a jar. Even though I wasn’t gardening at the time, I had the foresight to collect the beans. By the time it came to put the seeds in the dirt, whose to say how many different Chem crops my small purse of seeds came from. So whose the daddy? That is the million dollar question. And one I believe to be unanswerable without the help of science.
growmoremids
It wasn’t until the winter of 94-95 that these seeds were germinated. Swell and I got a place in upstate NY to start our first garden. I was supposed to get a Chem cut after I brought back a bunch of seeds from Amsterdam for my friend with the Chem; but you can guess how that went. No cut for you! Instead he gave me some RFK beans and some Kyle Kushman’s PK beans. Thank you!!!Fortunately, we had collected those Chem bag seeds. Out of the dozen or so seeds, only 3-4 made it to finish to which the #2 was selected as the keeper and revegged. The others were either hermed the f out or meh. But not the #2, she was a beaut. And what would you know— more happy accidents, seeds in the #2! So whose the daddy here? We can limit this to only a handful of potential donors. The RFK’s were banana factories. If I saw that shit today, it would get culled with a quickness… back then we didn’t know any better. The Chem seeds all showed hermed tendencies too… not quite like the RFK banana factories, but enough to notice. There were herm tendencies noticed in the #2 as well… so maybe these beans were selfed? It is certainly within the realm of possibility. Personally, I feel like the RFK is the responsible party…
growmoremids
The seeds from #2 were put away until winter of 95-96 when one of the homies came back to the east coast wanting to start a garden. I helped get his garden set up, gave him some cuts and a bag of beans labeled, “Our Diesel”, to which he added the “S” in front of the “our”for all the sour folks out there! Nothing to do with the smell, and everything to do with the play on words. This is how THE Sour Diesel came to be. All others are just a lights 
growmoremids
@kloppglass LOL. No. You mentioned my name, so here I am. The only way the Super Skunk has anything to do with Manny’s cut is if there was errant SS pollen from your garden. The only bag seed we were collecting came from your Chem over many months. All kept in one repository and all popped at the same time in Schenectady circa winter 94-95. The Sour was germinated a year later in the Catskills. Was it your Sour that went to Adam in 97-98 for the HT cup? Did your version of the Sour even exist at that time? How did she initially get her name? How did THseeds get the Sour to cross with the Sage? —asking for a friend.
wildmtncannabis
@growmoremids Totally spot on. The seeds from our #2 keeper were gifted to Manny in early 96, I saw the room/seedlings before I left town. None of us know exactly what cultivars she descends from, but that’s part of the mystery of “S”our Diesel. 
wildmtncannabis
@topdawgseeds my pleasure. I think the fact that it’s just a happy accident makes it even more special. Our “crew” had suffered a horrible and tragic loss in the time leading up to the fall of 1994. I always felt like the #2, and any subsequent offspring, came along to try and let us all heal.
growmoremids
@kloppglass yes sir. It’s Va not Vo fwiw. As far as the PK… Once upon a time, we came down to the city and all went to the shop, got a couple lights and some nutes. You weren’t giving out cuts then, but gave us a satchel of seeds to get started… some RFK and KK PK. Remember dude, we were good friends back then and you helped us out huge to take the first step…to which I will always be grateful! Part of that was the beans. The next time we cross paths I will refresh your memory as to where the seeds came from, through your hands. Surprised you don’t remember.
wildmtncannabis
@growmoremids I second that. Huge thanks to @kloppglass for helping us get our start. 
kloppglass
@growmoremids I don’t remember any pk and RFK seeds but I’d do long ago
growmoremids
@kloppglass We’re talking almost 25 years — so it was a while ago. Didn’t think many people had Kyle’s gear back then and you told us it it was something special. But anyway, not really relevant to the story…so back to the Sour you bred. Which one is it up in Phylos?
strain_o_the_day
@wildmtncannabis are you saying diesel is the same cut as Chem91?
wildmtncannabis
@strain_o_the_day As I understand it yes, but you should really ask @chemdog_glass and @kloppglass.
And Underdog is NOT the mother of the Sour. Diesel #2 was/is. Diesel #2 was selected and seeded in late 94’. soon after Weasel went to Amsterdam. The #2 was chosen as the closest representation of Diesel (chem 91) and her seeds (unplanned) were kept, labeled as “our diesel” and eventually started in early 96 in the Catskills.
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From a video; adam dunn show
starts at about 1:08:00 again at 2:00
IMPORTANT 1:35:14 seeded buds to the catskills guys
AJ met Weasel for the first time back in the early 90’s at central park. On Tuesday nights there was a greatful dead night at WetLands after sundown. AJ had only known JJ for about a year or so
AJ met Weasel in 92’/93’ at a New York City nightclub, Wetlands Preserve, when they shared a bowl of Chemdog [91] or “Diesel”. AJ knew immediately that Weasel must know JJ because he brought Diesel with him to smoke with AJ. And eventually they became neighbors when Weasel married the girl who lived next door to him. Over they years they became friends while living in upstate New York from about 1995 to 1998 but eventually AJ moved away and they lost touch with one another.
Weasel met Greg and a friend at a dead show in 1992 and asked him for a cut. And he agreed so he went to Mass. and got the cuts. Greg asked him to keep them on lock and he did but eventually he gave them out. At the time he was running other strains such as the RFK. Then sometime in 92’/93’ Weasel met AJ and JJ and they formed a little circle and became friends. In 94’ he went to Amersterdam and came back with seeds. His first cross was to NL (straight NL not NL#5), Big Bud, Hawiian indica, Oasis, and Shanti Shiva. He got the Super Skunk from a guy in Mass. So he took the NL to Chem and got 500-600 seeds. He put 100 seeds in a room. His first seed, the #1, became the best plant, the Underdog, which later became known as Headband. Later on AJ’s buddy, Cherb, started calling it headband because it felt like someone was tightining a band around his head.
So Underdog is Chemdog 91 x NL. 35 turned out to be female and every plant was different and the seleted the plant that looked the most like the Chem 91. So he took a male Chem 91 x NL to MSS. He doubts that the Hawaiian indica hermied to produce seeds. So he took this seeded bud, a half pound of it, and sold it to the Albany (catskills) crew, Vondo, and he came back with a cut of Sour Diesel. And Weasel grew out some of the seeds but he never got a plant that was like the Sour Diesel.
AJ says that Vondo said there was one seed in that half pound, it was not loaded with seeds. And AJ also says that Weasel did not have enough time between he bought the NL seeds
AJ says that his trip to Amsterdam inspired Weasel to go to Amsterdam himself, which he did, but he says that there was not enough time for Weasel to go to Amsterdam, buy seeds, bring them back (taped to his dick), Take the NL male to Chem 91 to make ChemLights and then take a male from ChemLights to MSS to make Sour Diesel all before January of 1995. Because AJ claims that Weasel handed AJ a clone of Sour Diesel in May of 1995 and he had a jar of finished bud in hand. So what AJ questions is if Weasel had enough time to make ChemLights and Sour Diesel in 5 months. AJ does not doubt that Headband/Underdog is Weasels and it definitely is and Weasel was doing some intentional breeding but he just believes that the Sour Diesel was a single seed in an ounce or two of chem and that’s it.
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JJ is in this interview and provides information about what he recalls.
JJ says that Weasel went up to Mass and came back with Mass SS and 91 Chemdog. Then later Weasel went to Amsterdam and got NL seeds and found a male. Male to Mass SS. Then a male from that to the 91 Chem. He said that it’s also possible it is the 91 Chem x Mass SS.
Underdog
Weasel told JJ that the first seed he was going to germinate was going to “be the one” and he germed 100 seeds and as predicted, his #1 was “the one”.
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https://highgradeaid.com/the-story-of-sour-diesel/
Sour Origins
An East Coast, New York City legend, Sour Diesel is another one of those all-time classic, pioneer strains with a place in your heart that can’t be filled. In the circle of heavy hitters, there is no doubt in our mind that Sour Diesel has a place in the cypher. For more than 20 years, Sour Diesel has been enjoyed by cannabis enthusiasts all over the world. It’s definitely one of our staff favourites for its intense, almost psychedelic high that lasts for hours on end; but where does the famed Sour Diesel come from? Let’s go back in time and find out!
Talking about classic, Sour Diesel is one of those throwback, anytime strains that everybody has heard about, but nobody really knows much about it besides where it came from. One of those, put you on your ass types highs that keeps users coming back for more, but how did this player get into the game? Back when cannabis wasn’t as accepted, people bought, sold, and grew weed in secrecy. With Sour Diesel, there was no real introduction, no nitty gritty details, just vwoosh, this unknown player, Sour Diesel just jumped into the fray sometime around the early 90’s, and it’s been a wrap for the game since.
Breaking the Silence: Enter AJ
For years, there was nothing but speculation surrounding the true genetics of Sour Diesel, with numerous cuts and crosses being named as the supposed parents being spread all over the internet and by word of mouth. All the world knew was that the famed strain had its start in New York City. A man named AJ came forward to break the silence. Rather than calling himself the creator, AJ likes to think of himself as “the servant and keeper of Sour Diesel”. “Back then we called all good weed the diesel” he said. AJ goes on to comment to The Kindland:
“It’s called the Sour Diesel because it soured countless friendships, business relationships, and everything else…“It was like a magical power. If you had it, people would do whatever you asked them to. But it was also an evil power, a lot of envy and jealousy surrounded it. There was nothing else like it. There still isn’t, but at the time there was nothing even close. People would throw each other off a cliff to get to it. Backstabbing and mind control went along with it. It was like the sword of Excalibur, people just couldn’t handle it.” [1]
Chemdog and Chem 91
But just what is the Sour Diesel? The Sour Diesel started as a cut of Chem 91, the original “ChemDog” before it was “Chemdawg”. Back in the 90’s, AJ’s and his friend PBud were following the Grateful Dead as they were on tour, and happened to bring some of what they had at the time called “Dogbud”, a pheno of Hashplant, for the potent effect of having you roll over after you smoked it. Their crew wound up selling out at the concert, making friends with a young man who took the name of Chem. He would play the next part in the conception of Sour Diesel into the world.
The friends stayed in touch, and wound up sending Chem some of the Dogbud to Massachusetts, which wound up having 13 lucky seeds.Of the 13 lucky seeds, Chem popped 4, tossing the 1st seed as it turned out to be male, a mistake that Chem regrets, but no use crying over spilt milk. The other 3 seeds went on to become Chem 91, Chem’s Sister, and Chem C, with Chem 91 being the powerhouse of the 3. Chem continued to work on the 91, while the story switches protagonists to a man named Weasel from Staten Island, at a Phisph concert in the Roseland Ballroom in NY, passing the story’s torch to him.
The Weasel with the Diesel
Weasel and Chem set up to trade cuts, and they did. At the time Weasel was working on a strain called RFK, another pheno of Hashplant that was named after the new stadium in D.C… He wound up trading the RFK with another unamed strain, for Chem’s Chem 91 and Massachusetts Super Skunk. These two strains wound up being Weasel’s staple strains for a while.
Weasel went out to Amsterdam and a brought back a bunch of genetics from Sensi Seeds, to which he began experimenting with crossing into some of his own genetics that he already had. He went on to mix Chem 91 with Northern Lights to create “Underdog”, which AJ dubbed “Headband”, giving history another amazing strain, but he didn’t stop there. Weasel went on to tinker with the Underdog line, popping around 100 seeds. What he did next became the catalyst for our Sour Diesel.
A Twist of Fate
Weasel crossed the Massachusetts Super Skunk he got from Chem with his Underdog cut, creating a plant that also yielded a significant amount of seeds, or so the story goes. He only pulled a half pound, to which he sold to some people he knew called the “Albany” crew from Upstate New York. They grew out the seeds, and eventually gave Weasel a cut on their next meeting, which he grew out, and then handed off to AJ, who carries the legacy on to this day.
There we have it folks. The true genetics of the legendary Sour Diesel is Mass. Super Skunk x Underdog [ Chem 91 x Northen Lights]. After being shrouded in mystery for so long, the truth is finally out there for all cannabis enthusiasts to know.
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RFK is skunk bagseed from a 90-91’ Dead show at RFK Stadium. There were 3 different versions of RFK skunk 1, 2, & 3. The strain was given to MK who may have taken a Hawaiian too. A female of that was supposedly hit with a NL male to make DNL.
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My conversations with wildmtcannabis and growmoremids led me to believe that the Diesel #2 was something that those two seriously believed were at the core of Sour Diesel. Who knows.!?!
I left off doing research on RFK.
~Doc
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AJ Sour Diesel interview
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