Specific traits when breeding

Breeder's Lab
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I am working at breeding high THC strains that have helped me to create for people with CPS (Chronic Pain Syndrome), and severe Neuropathy. Which I am trying to get specific traits of the strains to be key. Such has I am wanting to really focus in on the arousal, giggles, creativity, euphoria, and also appearance.

An example:
I want the coloration, arousal, and euphoria of Purple Diesel, giggles & high THC from Quantum Kush, and leaf structure of Freakshow (I have seeds for). Another one Pineapple Trainwreck for the creativity, Bruce Banner 2.0 for the THC, and Power Plant for the bud structure/shape & production.

Breeding subspecies of macaws is drastically different than cannabis. Macaws get equal parts of color, personality, etc of both parents subspecies right off the bat.

What would be the best order, and which should be the females to breed them for the traits? From what I have found on the net is the mother traits are the ones the new generation will have.

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Disclaimer: I don’t know what I’m talking about, this is all theory and links to other people’s research and ideas. :stuck_out_tongue:

From what I’ve read, the mother and father are equally important, or if anything, the father is more important - of course, the father can also be much harder to select for the traits you want (How do you pick your stud? - Overgrow.com). We don’t have much in the way of genome mapping accomplished for cannabis, at least not information publicly available that I’ve found, and I personally have no idea whether any of those traits you listed are recessive or dominant except for the Freakshow’s leaf structure, which I’m fairly sure is recessive and may even be a recessive sex-linked gene (Important Freakshow breeding info. Plus bonus Multileaf mutant info). I have no idea what order would be best, other than knowing that you should probably cross the Freakshow in last since it’s at least recessive, if not recessive sex-linked, and you don’t want to have to select for that in each and every generation through every cross…

Just offhand, based on the crude observation methods I have available to me, I can say that if I were in your shoes I’d try crossing the Power Plant with Purple Diesel, then breed out the cross and pheno hunt for a male and female pairing that both carry the rather obvious selected traits of structure and color… though as for arousal and euphoria, or later on giggles/creativity, all of those are probably going to be terpene-based. Unless you have access to sophisticated testing and more knowledge than I have about any factual basis for the “entourage effect,” which may or may not be real at all, that leaves you with lots and lots of double-blind smoke tests with the F2 and succeeding generations before you stabilize the traits, at which point you can start crossing your first cross with another strain using similar methods. Crossing in for THC is easier, since there are simple (though probably fiendishly expensive) tests for that.

Hopefully at least a little bit of this helped you, rather than just confusing you more. :slight_smile:

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i’ve heard ‘sunshine daydream’ from bodhi seeds is good for nerve pain, i think bodhi has nerve pain issues but i can’t confirm that.

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I was just using the Purple Diesel & Power Plant as an example. I was planning on breeding Freakshow in last on strains as I know the leaf structure dos not always carry over.

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You have too many goals I’d say. Ditch leaf structure and a few others and try to create something that has 2-3 characteristics you want.

All the best.

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Male/female has much less to do with it than dominant/recessive genetics. You will get representations of both parents in a first generation cross.

If you use inbred lines (IBLs), that is the best case for predictable outcomes. IBLs have significantly more homozygous traits (dominant/dominant or recessive/recessive). Crossing two plants that both have homozygous alleles for a single trait gives you 100% consistency in the first generation. Punnett square of either AA x AA or AA x aa gives you dominant traits in all the offspring, while aa x aa gives you 100% recessive.

When you cross two parents that have heterozygous alleles for a trait, you will get both dominant and recessive outcomes in the offspring (greater variability).

If you are using polyhybrids that haven’t been inbred 5-7 times as your parents, you’re going to get a lot of different things represented in the offspring. It’s not even worth thinking about. Just make the cross and hunt a mother to clone that meets your needs.

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On an average month where I am not hurting I will go thru 8 to 10 ounces. In a bad month I can go thru close to a pound. I harvested 4 plants the start of August (I lost 12 plants when I moved), by the middle of September I was tapped, and have been dropping depending on specials $1,200 to almost $3,000 a month at dispensaries. So my goal is to get the most effective plants for with the highest THC content possible. Bruce Banner 2.0, Purple Wreck, LSD, and Quantum Kush are the high THC strains I will use to breed in as they work for me, and hit fast and hard.

@Foreigner
I was just using those as example, and pulling traits out of my butt lol. All the strains I am breeding have similar effects, but at different levels.

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Going to be interested in this as I certainly fit into the CPS fold. I am going the CBD route to kill the pain without altering reality but would love to have some creative, euphoria moments.

I am just working with two strains now, I have the first generation from a male and a female going right now. I was thinking of taking the successful female clone and pollinating it with either the original pollen. Or reversing the original female and hitting the final plant. Or just reversing the plant you are happy with and make a bunch of feminized seeds.

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The seeds/strains I will be using as parents are stable, and have been inbred. Plants from see I cut clones of a fem, put 4 in a small tent, hermie one, and poof no more tracking down seeds lol.

Close to 2/3 people with severe Neuropathy and or CPS end up heroine addicts, dying of an “accidental” pain pill overdose or to put it bluntly eat the end of a barrel. All severe CPS & Neuropathy patients suffer from severe anxiety, and depression.

I have “worst case scenario” or what is often referred to as “death sentence diagnosis”. Awhile back they changed my pain management from helping control pain to “being made comfortable”. My spine is trash and cutting off my nerves, and is getting worse. I am slowly, and painfully going paralyzed. Best case scenario I end up totally paralyzed. Worst case scenario I suffer organ failure before going paralyzed.

I have accepted my fate, and want to be as pain free or at least not give a dang while I can, BUT I also want to stablize that strains so other people with my conditions don’t have to go around every day feeling like their limbs are being pulled off on a medieval torture rack or when water hits their skin it feels like acid eating thru flesh.

Creating and stabalizing at least one single strain to help other people with this is part of my end game.

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Has a Neurologist prescribed medications for the pain? I am on a few and basically would not be here without them.

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Yes I have multiple forms of seizures, complex migraines, and tourettes so I see a neurologist, and an epileptologist a couple times a year, and have gone thru 2 brain surgeries. I have been in pain management almost 20 years. I took myself off of narcotic pain pills 8 years ago before things got bad. Refuse to go back on them. At this point the only options for Neuropathy left prescription wise are to go back on perc, morphine, and dilauded. Trigger point injections stopped working 4 years ago, and spinal injections quit working and started making me a lot worse 2 years ago. I refuse to go back on pain pills I was on them for about 5 years straight I will not go back on them for any prolonged period. I get surgery, have an accident if I cant smoke I will take them otherwise I never get the scripts filled.

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:muscle: that’s great. You will get good consistency in the first gen of your cross that way. There will probably still be some varying degrees of each parent, since nothing is fully homozygous. But at least you won’t be looking at a completely different plant for every seed you grow. If the cross is helpful to you, then you will be able to stop there and enjoy its benefits.

As for the effects, there is really no way to predict what will come out. For example, ‘giggles’ isn’t a biological trait, so much as how your body chemistry responds to a certain cannabinoid or profile of cannabinoids. It’s probably related to several cannabinoids, which are each linked to several biological traits.

I don’t think anybody in the entire industry can tell you either what exactly cannabinoids/profile will have that effect on you for certain – or predict a priori what cannabinoid profile will come out of a single cross. Much of breeding still depends on testing crosses and observation of outcomes, rather than using any for of genetic prediction.

For certain simple traits that are well understood, it is possible to have a good idea of the outcomes. If you cross a photo and and auto, the first generation will probably be photo – but even that assumes that the photo parent is homozygous, which is usually true, but is not known to be true until tested by crossing with the homozygous recessive auto.

Furthermore, if you are trying to stabilize multiple recessive traits, you must first know that they are recessive, you must also know that they are linked to single alleles and you must either attempt to do it in steps, or use high numbers. And in either case, it is not done in a single generation of cross.

For example, if you have a recessive color gene in one parent and a recessive auto gene in the other parent, your first generation cross will probably not have either the color or the auto. Then you inbreed 1 generation to F2. In that generation, 25% will have the color, 25% will have the auto, but only 25% of 25% of plants (1/16th) will have both the color and the auto. In numbers, you will need to grow 16 males AND 16 females to stabilize 2 recessive traits in a single generation. Alternatively, you can strategize an open pollination with a female that expresses only 1 of the traits, and then use better odds in the F3 generation.

On the other hand, with cannabinoids, since there’s probably a high number of genes involved, it becomes more statistical than deterministic, with the median plant being somewhere in the middle of the two parents, and tails of outliers more extreme than either parent – especially with longer tails in the first inbred generation (F2).

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No autos for breeding lol. I use them as “tent fillers” and surround my vegging photos with small autos which once harvested flip the photos

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How about the non-narcitic drugs like Amitriptyline and Gabapentin?

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I was only using ‘auto’ as an example of a recessive trait. The same is true of any recessive trait that is “simply inherited” (one gene). The numbers stack up quickly when you are really trying to target specific things, and the feasibility for home breeding efforts ends there.

But that’s the process of breeding. At home, your best bet is to only try and stabilize maybe 1 recessive trait at most. 2 may be possible, but not always. Anything more than that becomes a big operation.

For cannabinoids/effects, I tend to assume the median plant will be something of an average between your two parents if they’re somewhat inbred. Choosing the parents wisely is by far the most meaningful thing you can do at home.

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I was on Amitriptyline from like 2012 to 2016 didn’t help the neuropathy, but slightly helped my migraines. Gabapentin made me severely sick to my stomach. Keep belching the taste of rotten eggs which then made me throw up because it is frigging disgusting tasting lol

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Well that sucks. There are a few more drugs in their classes. Was just hoping that a non-narcotic would help.

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I would try some freakshow, and see what its missing for you, then try to cross it to something that has what it’s missing. Mine is actually pretty strong and skunky. Its what I’ve been smokin lately. Its an uppy daytime smoke for me tho. If you want something more heavy for meds maybe cross it with something couch locky? Supafreak has more indica in it but I haven’t tried it. It’ll be easier to use freakshow females for breeding because it has an X linked recessive gene. It could be done with a male, its just a bit harder.
The health stuff just sucks man. It’s hard not to get depressed knowing there is so much unfixable pain in the world. Its not easy being human, that’s for sure. I also think about how cool it would be to make something to leave behind. Its like prolonged mortality, where your footprint gets to stay around a little bit longer, even if in a small way. If you do it well, your “footprint” even gets to travel and make people smile in places you never got to go.

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why would you want freakshow leaf structure if you are breeding for medical qualities?

outcrossing to a mutant will change everything, not just the leaves. If you had a strain with the medical effects you wanted, you would unpredictably lose the traits you have been breeding for in that outcross.

It will also reduce the yields, which I would definitely want to avoid doing. it sounds like you go through a lot of meds and need to maximize your harvests.

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I am going to be growing the strains after each breeding. If at some point a strain starts going south or opposite of what I am aiming for I can just go back one step.

Freakshow also shares a couple of key traits with each of the other strains. Hopefully give those traits a little bit of a boost, and look cool too. If not I have a ton more strains, and seeds to try. I do want an interesting looking plant. and not just the typical plant.

Gardening, and growing cannabis are very relaxing and therapeutic for me. It brings me great joy to grow very unique, and interesting plants. Pierr noir bell peppers, purple greenbeans, white strawberries just makes it even more relaxing and exciting. My version of a Zen meditation I guess you could say.

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