I would use both males if you don’t currently know which trait brings what you want. Then you will still have both in the gene pool to choose from when/if you do know what to look for.
7 Likes
Gotta go with the fine details. Compare to your SSDD cut and other’s you’ve grown, compare to the TK, compare to the Bubba. Follow the nuances if it’s similar. That’ll tell you quite a bit right there.
It depends on what you want to do.
If you want to lock down a particular trait or pheno then breed like with like.
If you want to open the line up or improve a trait then breed like with different.
For instance, if you wanted to improve the TK’s structure, maybe take the thick stem TS male to her, but if his other traits are also all SSDD and not TK then you’re also making more work for yourself in the long run. If improved structure is the goal, ideally, you’d want a male just like TK in stem rub, resin, and as close morphologically as you can get with just improved structure and branching. Otherwise again, more work. Though, if you’re taking TS back to TK for a TK BX1 already, it might shorten that up 
but in general, you’d need to backcross again at least one more time to really lock anything in. This is what I did with my SSDD BX1 line, and why I’m 2.5 years and 100+ beans in to trying to find the right SSDD male(s) to make an F3/BX2/IX cross with.
If you want more SSDD then go the other way.
If you just wanna make good beans, find some stable frosty males 
9 Likes
I’ll make more of an effort to gauge the stem rub odors tomorrow when the lights go on.
I want to be able to find something similar to the TS-A again should I happen to lose it. I’d like to be able to pop 20-30 beans, toss the males, and find a single plant that is close enough in the offspring. Maybe see some variations on the flower morphology as well. I’m not really interested in doing any kind of (real) back cross work or anything like that. My thinking with throwing it at the SSDD & tk was more just a kind of “see what happens” when I throw it back on an (unrelated) parent. Who knows, maybe the TK will blow it out of the water and I’ll decide to retire the TS-A on the spot.
OK so to me that makes me think I should probably pollinate with both and keep E (the thin stem one).
I’m fine with the structure of both TK and the TS. I actually prefer that kind of growth.
Exploring female versions (partial?) of the ssdd male would be pretty cool too.
These are the only 2 males that I have left of the pack so that doesn’t seem to be a likely possibility to me. This isn’t really a cross I have much hope for finding more seeds of.
10 Likes
This seems to me to be the best course of action. You may have to grow 1000 of the resultant seeds out to eventually find what you’re looking for haha, but at least there’d be options. And you don’t have any problem trashing plants anyway, so you might as well pollinate with both and plant as many seeds as you need to.
9 Likes
Ya but there’s no way that’s going to happen (germinating 1k seeds). I guess I could see potentially going though a hundred or two looking for veg traits but I’m not entirely sold on that approach. I’m still skeptical about the idea of reading too much into veg traits as a marker for the finished flower. I could sort of see how branching structure may translate to floral branching structure but what does that have to do with resin profile or calyx to leaf ratio. That’s completely ignoring effect and aroma as well obviously. Just intuitively it seems off but I have no knowledge base to argue it.
Let’s just say for argument and simplicity sake a puppy that came from a German Shepherd Dog and a Husky. Would a black muzzle tell me anything about the potential for the dog to show herding behavior?
That said I’ve never really read any breeding material other than what was taught in grade school regarding punnet squares.
I guess I’ll rephrase it & the problem I’m going to run into.
-
This next run I am going to run the clones out that were listed in post #2.
-
I have the capability of running some small Triple Sun A cuts in a side area that I could manually pollinate outside of the grow area.
-
I intend on pollinating with both of the current males but because I will only have 1 or 2 Triple Sunshines available to pollinate that will result in limited seeds
-
In order to make more seeds I will have to do this again at a later date. This would be a good time to pollen chuck other things as well if available.
-
I have a cutting of both males but I do not want to keep both males long term.
-
2nd batch of F2s would be from just 1 of the males and I am just wondering if there’s any indicators for making a best guess.
My intuition tells me no - you need to test offspring and what not. Still interested in thoughts.
9 Likes
Some things are linked and some things aren’t. It depends on the line and the parents.
For your example, If the GSD is known for the black muzzle and the herding traits and the husky’s aren’t, then yeah honestly, that’s not a bad trait to look out for in the offspring. Should that be your only qualification? Fuck no, obviously lol. But one to check off the list if it does. Does that mean you won’t find a white muzzle dog that’s the best herder? nope, totally could, but I still wouldn’t rule out the first hypothesis. Gotta test and see.
Any trait from the parent(s) may or may not mean anything in the first cross, or the second, or ever. or it just might right off the bat and you can follow it down the line. Lot of stem rubs and comparisons. Following parents. Following traits. Again, some mean nothing. Some do. Some only mean something at certain times. I’ve not grown the TS to know which way anything goes for sure, but I have grown some other TK crosses and in those, generally the one’s that are structurally similar and smell like her, do come out like her or OGK come harvest time. The one’s that don’t… generally don’t 
7 Likes
For sure haha. I was just kind of joking, didn’t think you were gonna plant 1000 seeds. Or not all at once, anyway.
As everybody knows, I’ve never done any chucking, so I don’t feel comfortable talking about it, but it does seem to me that if you’re unsure about what exactly you’re looking for in a male and you’ve got two of them, might as well use them both.
9 Likes
Yeah I am going to use both - but it will probably be closer to spring or early summer before I can do a larger pollination. I don’t want to keep both males for that long due to space issues. I’ll just keep E. E looks healthier in both flower and the veg tent, and also cloned easier. E is the one with the thinner stems.
On the maybe related topic of linking veg traits to flower - Here’s the Spirit HP #2 – elongated stem pheno. Would it have been a good marker for Ghost OG traits? I don’t know. It feels like the more 88g crosses I grow out the less confident I become talking about it haha. The lower buds all look consistent with what I’ve gotten from 88g13hp-hybrid plants to me. Not sure about the tops. The MOST important thing though is it does have red petioles. This was harvested at about day 75.
30 Likes
These shots are great. I can almost smell the flower. 
6 Likes
Thanks, appreciate the feedback on pics as always.
Here’s the TS males
E
H
Both looking really similar.
TS A
29 Likes
A few pics of @syzygy ’s sunshine daydream f2’s he sent me. Thanks again!
I believe they are just under 3 weeks old.
I only had room to germinate 4 for now but plan to run more asap.
So far I am impressed. They are growing vigorous like bodhi strains tend to do. They are way ahead of the thug pug peanut butter breath f3’s I popped at the same time.
They did stretch a bit initially but that was my fault. I had the light slightly too far away. I am using a new veg light and wanted to play it safe. I moved it about 4” closer and they are stacking up nicely now.
19 Likes
For anyone who’s grown any of the clones before - do any of them seem better suited than others for attempting to grow single stemmed in a 1 GAL pot? I’m starting to become a bit apprehensive about trying to physically support all the new clones when grown out. I guess I could run a horizontal netting but I’d rather not. I get the impression with the Lav Jack that it would be really difficult to confine, but was curious about either bubba or c91.
I was thinking of doing a Bubba in a 1 GAL pot single stemmed and then →
Triangle , Pinesoul , and Lav Jack, Chem 91 - in 7.5 GAL pots and either see if I can copy IAY and dig up some Tomato cages, DIY something, or lots of stakes.
10 Likes
The Bubba is pretty sturdy and doesn’t stretch too much once flipped, so it may do fine in a 1 GAL with no supports. It seems to like growing more beanstalk style too.
The Pinesoul, TK, Lav Jack will all need some sort of staking/support.
On the Lav Jack, clear out most of the inner bud sites and lower growth, but still be ready to support the tops.
The Pinesoul has noodle OG stems, thin and bendy, from both times I’ve run her, so a cage/frame would be best.
TK stems are better than Pinesoul, but like to stretch slightly more than the Chem 91 (ymmv), and I think TK has slightly longer internode spacing, but they are pretty close. Chem 91 supported herself better than TK, but the tops get bigger than the TK (or did in my case) and will need yo-yos or stakes.
Sounds like you’ve got some staking to do! But, I like your plan of running bigger pots this time, it will give you a better picture of those clones, constraining them to one gallon pots may limit them in some way… though I don’t know that for a fact. You’ll have plenty to gift away too, or make hash with, if you end up not liking some or all of them.
14 Likes
Awesome, very helpful. Thanks!
Cool, I can always stake it in a 1 GAL too if need be. Doing it in a smaller pot will give me a bit more access to the 6 GAL pots for maintenance if I only have 4 of them in there. Hearing that the C91 can be finicky with leaf issues makes me think that wouldn’t be the best plant to try to grow in a root constricted situation. At least initially.
Appreciate the comments on the lav jack as well, was wondering about that. Good to hear it’s worked out well for you.
Yeah my main thought process is that if I take on too many large pots in a small area I may end up negatively impacting everything. I’m not worried about what I will or won’t like at this stage, I want to give everything a fair chance with an open mind. Seeing how Lav Jack is branching scares me a little bit knowing I don’t have a support structure planned out yet.
Also I have a backup clone of everything except Irene right now so that’s good. I think I’m going to pull the Trip Sun either tomorrow or Saturday and cut the males down as well. I don’t really have any good place to put the male branches to collect pollen but will try to figure something out. I don’t want to keep them in the area they are in now and end up seeding all the new stuff. If I can’t figure something out I’ll just trash them and scrap that idea. Have to fully clean the area because the flowers have been opening for a few days now.
I have 3 inverted tomato cages that gradually get smaller. Maybe they aren’t actually for tomatoes, if anyone knows what they are actually for let me know. Seems like a bad design for tomatoes but it’s what I have. I think I can make it work if I cut off the top ring or mod it in some other way.
Have 5 of these filled up and ready to come in - though I may only use 4.
13 Likes
Males are down - E stem snapped trying to forcefully bend it over parchment paper. Will leave it for a few days and see if any pollen drops on the paper.
Trip Sun tent shot + flash - I think we’re around day 65 here but not sure. It’s coming down tomorrow or Saturday though.
I’m thinking for the C91 , TK , Pinesoul and Lav jack I should just transplant these. For the Bubba in a 1 GAL I’ll use one of the newer cuttings probably. Could possibly even do a backup with 1-2w veg just to be safe.
No Irene this round because I do not have confirmation on a backup clone yet.
Also before I forget, and this may not be a new concept to any of you but I had a youtube auto-play video pop up relating to some Cannabis facility. Normally I’d turn it off as I have no interest in that stuff but I did find one thing they were doing interesting. When I was listening to that Tumi genetics hlvd interview with breeder syndicate it had me thinking maybe the best approach to taking cuttings would be to use a syringe filled with rooting hormone. Well I saw in this video these people were actually doing that to prevent contamination, but rather than applying it to the stem like I was thinking they just put it in the hole of their rooting plugs in advance. Pretty simple, obvious, common sense solution.
Again, may not be new to anyone but it was a cool idea to me. May start doing that in the future.
17 Likes
That’s fantastic! I feel like whenever I stick my clones in with the gel, it just gets pushed off. I try and widen the hole with a chopstick, but I’ll be swapping out for this. I’ve got a bunch of little candy pipettes that will be perfect for it!
9 Likes
Yeah that should be a good use of them for sure! Probably saves time not having to dip as well. Good stuff.
Here’s a screenshot of them prefilling the plugs -
20 Likes
I feel like an idiot. That’s genius.
3 Likes
Haha, that’s the same reaction I had when watching it. So simple and obvious too, as is usually the case. Glad at least a few people gained something from it. It’s always cool finding out different ways to tweak how we do things. I’m going to start doing it for a while as long as I have so many moms sitting around.
I brought inside the 4 12" (6.5 gal?) pots so that the soil can warm up. I intend to clean the flower area and transplant tomorrow. Not sure how long I’ll wait to flip, maybe only a few days. I’m still dreading the plant support side of things but otherwise I’m really excited about all of this!
13 Likes
Quick photo dump because I’m rushing around but wanted to get them backed up - didn’t really go through them and I know there’s a lot of redundant pictures - different angles and what not. Found a tray full of the Devil’s HP bone dry on top of my tent - completely forgot I set it up there. Also took down Trip Sun 65-70 days harvested - going to take the dogs then see if I can find a few Tomato cages locally.
End of the fall project and excited to move on to the new clones!
32 Likes