'93 Mexican All Star breeding projects

I started growing in the late '80s with Mexican bag seed. In 1989 I made some seeds from above average Mexican commercial. I kept growing other plants but that was my main sativa and for several years I didn’t come across anything better. In 1992 a friend gave me three seeds that he said came from a bag of Mexican brick weed that was way stronger than normal brick weed. I sprouted them and grew them out, the two females I got were normal uninspired Mexican commercial. The third plant was a male but it stunk even as a seedling which I hadn’t seen in Mexican plants before and the growing tips got me pretty high. So I put it back into veg, cloned it, and then sprouted some of my '89 Mexican regulars to cross it with. I made the cross in 1993. The results were the best Mexican bag seed plants I or any of my friends had see at that point back then. The Mexican All Star was born.

I froze the seeds after drying them for a year, That was my main head stash strain through the '90s. By the late '90s I was running low on seeds so I made a large batch of F2s which I froze after drying them through the winter (which is the dry season here). I’ve been growing those F2s ever since and still have some. I am starting to run low so I was thinking it was time to make some more. I still have some of the F1s and I am pretty sure they will sprout because I also have some of the '89 Regular seeds and they still sprout.

In the run up to growing out the last of my F1s I was going to grow some F2s for smoke and maybe make a clone selection for some other breeding.

That is the good stuff. The bad things about this strain is that it is prone to herming and hates everything. I was going to try to find a female that didn’t herm and cross that to some other strains before I got around to the real reproduction. I’ve been growing this strain for 30 years and I have come to the conclusion that it is the hardest strain I have ever grown. Even after growing it 20 plus times each batch still comes out a little bit better than the batch before (although there are a few fluke perfect grows from time to time). My long term project is to go back to the F1s clone every individual and cross all the females with each male one at a time to try to breed out the hermaphroditic tendencies. The problem with this is that the herming seems to come from the million things that stress it and as I have gotten better at growing it I have fewer hermies.

Generally I mostly lurk here but it occurred to me that you all might be interested in this so I decided to start this thread. I am already well into the grow. I started flower the day before Thanksgiving so I am on day 38 of flower.

I started out with 10 Mexican All Star plants. I got three females which I cloned (there are also two Ace Banghi Hazes in the back of the garden).

I also got a male from a very rare phenotype that only comes up in the Mexican once in a blue moon. It is noticeably more sativa than the rest of the plants and once it gets out of the seedling stage develops what I call “alligator leaves” which are thin sativa leaves with deep serrations like an alligator’s back. This only comes up in males and only in about 1 out of 30 or 40 plants.

When I got that male I decided I was going to clone that and cross it with whatever females didn’t herm.

So far, fortunately or unfortunately none of the females have hermied. I may not be stressing them enough to breed out that trait.

These are the three female plants I have gotten:

This is the clone of the male. The alligator leaves haven’t appeared in the clone yet but I know that the genes are in there:

@Motaco

This is the same '93 Mexican All Star that Motaco has grown if you have seen his threads.

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Wow! What a history you have with this line, over thirty years now, I wish you luck but it sounds like you won’t need it, you’ve got a plan and well stored seeds, and this should be fun to watch!

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Very nice bromigo

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happy new year and this is great to see.
what king of terps do you get out of those? looks really nice.
how is the high?? i00 have seen you been running it for some time, it must be very special

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Very cool story! Best of luck!

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90s Mexican has some of my fondest memories glad I ran across this.

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Great to see you posting again! Those plants there, are they the F1 generation or the F2?

They look amazing. And I totally agree it is a pain in the ass plant. Quick to act up, never seems happy for long, etc. Despite that it is one of my fastest rooters.

I am really glad you are working to continue the line. I am not letting go of that mom I have for anything. The F3 seed run I did was a complete failure, with all of the F3’s becoming hermi. Thank god I didn’t pass them out! I made about 1,500 of them.

Regardless of that setback I am not giving up on it. An S1 might be my next move with it. It would break my heart to lose these genetics, which I have almost lost twice now. Like you said it is a moody little bitch.

The mom I have is bombproof though. I have put it through hell and back and it has never shown any hermi tendencies. I understand it is within it’s genetics, but this individual plant has good genes. I am almost positive the male is what caused the hermi tendencies.

@Som, this is very important. I don’t know if you have noticed, but this line also has hermi males. Hermaphroditism in males isn’t something the community talks about much, but it is real. I noticed a few little white stigma sticking out of male flower clusters. The calyx was completely hidden, but the stigma was sticking out visibly. I mean you had to REALLY look, because it is way less obvious than hermaphroditism in female plants. I discarded that plant and used the one true male I thought I had and that bastard carried the hermi genes.

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I grew up smoking nothing but Mexican/Mexico weed pretty much all my life.we called a strain lemon lime because that is exactly what this weed smelled and taste like.
I had a connect that became a good friend of mine in the early 2000’s and he would get some weed from Mexico that was so good and I mean so damn good,light green sinsemilla, stanky and sticky weed that I was even able to sell by the gram it was so good.
He would get 2 ton bricks in to the states for a good 6-7 years and in about 2008-2009 it all came to a Halt…
I’ll be lurking
Great luck and hopefully you come across some fire.

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When it is growing and after it has been freshly dried it has kind of sweet Christmas-y terps, not really pine per se but more like holly or laurel wreath and cedar wood. It isn’t super dank but the terps are definitely noticeable. After a long cure (2 months) it smells like classic Mexican brick weed - like bay leaf and dried mint. The high is floaty and shimmery and makes you want to go for a walk or play hacky sack. If you smoked Mexican weed in the '80s or early '90s it is the high you remember, but a stronger version than most of it.

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These plants are F2s. This batch didn’t start out as a serious breeding batch. I was growing some head stash and looking for a bulletproof female to make some crosses down the line (I want to redo the Krishna Kush cross with a female that I know won’t hermie and I also want to do a couple other crosses).

When I got a male with the alligator leaves I changed my plan. I’ve been chasing that pheno for 30 years. I’ve never had a female with those traits, so I don’t know what is in there. I want to do the cross just to see what I get.

I still plan to go back and sprout the rest of the F1s and do a serious reproduction of the line to try to get new F2s with the hermie tendencies turned down, but that is a project for a few years down the line.

The more I grow this line, the more I think that the hermie tendencies are all stress related so in breeding what I should really look for are plants that don’t stress out as easily. I’ve noticed that the longer I have grown this line the fewer hermies I get, the less hermaphroditic the hermie plants are and the hermies start showing up later in flower with each batch.

The list of stresses I’ve noticed that cause the hermie issues is long, but by avoiding them I have reduced the issues.

Over the years I have noticed all of these issues cause hermies in this line:

Overwatering
Underwatering
Soil type/drainage
Cal Mag deficiencies
Too much cal mag
Tiny, microscopic light leaks
Ph issues
Heat above 85 degrees
Topping early in flower
There are probably a lot more

The cal mag issues are the one I still struggle with.

So it is possible that those seeds that you made that are full of hermies, if you save them and grow them out again in 5 years after getting to know the line better, there may be fewer hermies, because it is a very picky strain. That is how it has been for me.

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I have a pretty intolerant stance on hermaphroditism. With all the feminized breeding going on I have become more adamant about these issues. I am pretty sure I can tease out some sort of line from this that will be more stable.

If you like that male so much make sure to freeze some pollen and try to keep it around. Even if it is F2 you could cross it back to the F1 generation to try to bring out more of those positive characteristics.

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yup i remember the brick week, man do i wish i would have kept those seeds. well i know better now haha. have you puffed on the straight pine stuff? if so do you remember the strain name? sorry had to ask since you’re in the age group that would have had it

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Christmas Tree.

Mexico has 2-3 seasons depending where and what strain is grown. Big amounts would come through during the colder months because it was easier to smuggle through the desert when it wasn’t a million degrees. Storage was probably less detrimental to the product during the winter too.

Green piney Mexican would mostly be seen from December to February. It wasn’t one strain, but a time of the year when good bud was fresh and cheap. The yearly drought started during the summer.

My personal opinion is that a lot of stuff from that era was Mexican and South American strains crossed to Skunk weed.

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yeah seems to be about right when that really pine stuff came through, that was some nice smoke, but you find it now and perhaps the lure of it will not be as piney

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I remember some really piney stuff in the early '90s but it was domestic. I don’t know what strain. I didn’t buy much weed back then because I had a killer cut of Afghani #1 and good Mexican that I was growing so I wasn’t really in the market.

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I remember reading in High Times in the late '80s that Mexicans had brought in some Thai seeds that had been grown by Vietnam vets in Hawaii to improve their product. That is the only reference I’ve ever seen to that but it would be a logical thing for them to do.

That probably wouldn’t be piney though.

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I’m now up to day 48 of flower. One of the plants hermied so I removed it. The other two are frosting up but that didn’t come out well in the photos I took.

All three plants are on different development trajectories. The one I removed was the farthest along and the most hybrid in morphology. The one I am now calling plant #1 looks the most sativa but is the second fastest in development. The plant I am calling plant #2 is the slowest but looks a little bit less sativa. It still barely has any red hairs. I am hoping plant #1 doesn’t hermie because it is probably the better one to breed with. Plant #2 is extremely picky, it showed major calcium deficiencies and then went straight into CalMag burn the first time I fertilized it. It is also showed nitrogen deficiencies well before the fade should start and then showed nitrogen burn the first time I fertilized it with a bloom formula. Overall plant #1 seems much less demanding. My long term goal is to not only breed out the hermaphroditic traits but to also breed with individuals that do better with modern indoor cultivation. When you are growing sativas indoors from lines that have always been grown outside, you can tell.

The male clone is coming along too. I am excited to see what I get when I use it to cross.

I feel like I should post some of the technical aspects of this grow. The plants are being grown in Ocean Forest soil. I am using General Organics CalMag and Bloom Formula. I have fertilized once with half strength CalMag and twice with half strength Bloom. The soil ph is 6.5. I am adjusting the water ph to 6.2. My light is an HLG 260 watt red spectrum LED. It is the first time I have grown the Mexican under an LED and it loves it. All three plants have been grown under the same conditions.

Plant #1

Plant #2

Male clone

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@Som if you feel like you have a prime specimen of a male, and I feel like I have a prime representative of a female, then the answer seems obvious. If you have any interest, I would be more than willing to time my plant flowering with yours. If you can mail me some pollen, I can mail you back some seeds. Just a thought.

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I don’t know yet that it is a prime male, I just know that it is an unusual one, and one that is well to the sativa side. But I can send you some pollen either way. I expect that I will start flowering it sometime early to mid February. I want some time to reveg one of the Banghi Hazes because it looks nice and I want to cross it to the Mexican the same time I make my f3s. The Banghi Haze is generally on the trippy side so I think it would be a nice cross.

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I’m up to day 56 now. Neither of the females I have left have hermied yet. They are starting to have more red hairs but still look like they are 2 to 3 weeks out. When I first started growing this line they were finishing in around 60 to 65 days, but as I have grown it for more years it seems to take longer to finish. I’m not sure why that is, maybe because the plants are staying healthier for longer. Plant #1 is in much better health than plant #2 which has been finicky from the get go. However if neither hermie I am going to make f3s with both. Sometimes the issue is with the specific grow of the individual plant and when you grow it again as a clone it doesn’t have the same issues. I am going to give it a try to see if that is the case.

Plant #1 shows some speckles from calcium deficiency which is common with this line but it doesn’t show any sign of a fade yet which surprises me because I have only fertilized it three times. Plant #2 has much more severe calcium deficiencies and has shown signs of nitrogen deficiency since early flower. It is also farther behind #1

Some close up bud shots:

Plant #1:

Plant #2:

Here is a bud shot from a previous grow. This was grown under HPS, it is probably a bit wispier than it will be under LED:

The clones I have look a little haggard right now because they are rootbound and in a veg area that isn’t nearly big enough for them, so I am not going to show those now but they are coming along.

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